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For over a decade, David Tian, Ph.D. — a uniquely qualified therapist, life coach, and former university professor — has coached tens of thousands of people from over 87 countries to achieve happiness and success in their relationships, dating, psychology, and lifestyle.
Dr. Tian has been featured in international media, as well as co-hosting a radio show on national radio and a weekly dating advice column in a national newspaper in Singapore.
The show, “Man Up: Masculinity for the Intelligent Man” (https://www.davidtianphd.com/blog/), is David’s way of helping as many people as possible enjoy empowering and fulfilling lives, while contributing to the global understanding of masculinity in modern times. In the show, he takes your questions posed in the Man Up private Facebook group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/manupcommunity/) and answers based on his experience coaching tens of thousands of students around the world for over a decade.
Connect with David Tian here:
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Why Do Girls Talk About Other Guys
David Tian Ph.D. identifies the real issue, it’s a friend zone situation.
David Tian Ph.D. discuss what’s hard to break when you are in the friend zone.
In this Man Up episode, David Tian Ph.D. reveals the red flag in this situation.
David Tian: Boom! Stop. In Episode 119 of Man Up, I answer the question of: What to do when the girl you like vents about other guys.
Masculinity for the intelligent man. I’m David Tian, Ph.D. and this is Man Up!
Hey! Welcome to Man Up. This is David Tian, Ph. D, and for the past ten years, I’ve been helping tens of thousands of people in over 87 countries find success in life and love. And here I am in Bangkok. I’m staying near the river. I just wanted to show you the river to the people who haven’t seen before. It’s a nice view. I had to close the curtains a bit just for lighting, but there’s the river, sunny day. And for the people who’ve seen Hangover, there’s the famous Lebua Sirocco Sky Bar there, the dome. You can see that from here. It’s a nice view and sunny day.
Okay, so I hope the camera adjusts. I’ve got it finally on manual focus. It’s been a thing. I’m learning how to use cameras, it’s pretty sad to admit, but this is not my main area of expertise. Also, I have to apologize. Only after shooting all of those episodes in Bali did I realize I’ve been holding my phone like this to record, and of course on mobile, you get the sidebars and that really is annoying because you can’t see it in large. So, lesson learned the hard way after many episodes, that when I shoot with a phone, I should shoot it this way. Anyway, now I’ve got the regular camera.
Alright, so answering a question from the private Facebook group. This one is from Carlo. The question is, “How do I communicate to a girl in a date that I want to ‘date-date her’?” His words. Quick backstory, he says, “She’s a friend of mine for five years now and I like her, though we never really got to communicate that because we were working on community projects together. In those five years, we had our simple conversations and our one-on-one coffee sessions where she vents out about guys who are class A d-bags. But we’ve never really gone on a date-date. I asked her out for next Friday when I was wondering how by the old gods and the new, I can ask her if we can go on date-dates or how do I escalate?”
“Thank you,” he says, “I’ve been reading and watching some Man Up videos lately and I’d really like to get your opinions.” Thanks. Well, Carlo, first of all, thanks for watching the videos. I’m getting better at making these, getting to the point quicker and I’m going to try to do this here. So, this is a pretty simple answer now. What I’m going to do is… You’re in the friend zone. So, lesson number one is to diagnose your situation. If you don’t realize you’re in the friend zone but you’re in the friend zone, that’s problem number one. So I’m telling you right now, you’re in the friend zone, you’re deeply in the friend zone, man.
Five years together, and you go on coffee dates where she vents about other guys. So, those are all signs of friend zone. It’s difficult to get out of. I just got to make sure you understand that, but you can get out of it. So, we’ve actually created, my team and I, a series of… I think it’s just one long-ish video where I dissect the issue and walk you through step-by-step how to get out of it, And you can sign up for it. I’m going to put the link in the comments, in the question, in the private Facebook group.
So, for the other people watching this who also want to know whether they’re in the friend zone, and if so how to get out of it… And this is the umpteenth time I’m answering it, and it’s funny how it keeps coming up, but I will put the link in the private Facebook group, in the comment to his question. So, look for the question by Carlo then look for the comment and I’ll put that link there. Just go on the link, click the link and you’ll get the course. Okay? Simple as that. It’s much more complicated than I would like to devote an eight minute/ten minute video to. So, it’s a thorough step-by-step solution to your issue.
It also helps you understand your issue better. Okay, so I’ve already prepared that, go into it. But one thing I want to point out for the guys who are confused whether they’re in the friend zone or not… Because if you’re in the friend zone, it’s not like you’re just attracting her or getting to know her from the beginning. When you are not in the friend zone, you have an advantage because you have that first impression, which is hard to break. And if you make a good first impression, it’s really going to work for you. But if you make a friend, platonic first impression, it’s really hard to break and get yourself out of the friend zone and into a potential lover or potential boyfriend category.
So, here’s the issue here. Here’s one of the red flags. He says they went on for five years. They’ve been having simple conversations and one-on-one coffee sessions where she vents about guys who are douchebags. And that is a big sign that you’re in the friend zone, okay? So, for all those guys out there, if she’s venting to you, and especially if it’s been years, but even if it’s the first few times, if she’s venting about other guys to you and you’re just there as the shoulder to cry on, if you’re the therapist, then you are fucked. You are clearly in the friend zone. You’re so deep in the friend zone, actually, that you are in advanced level friend zone.
Okay? Because there’s layers of friend zone. For her to go to you and trust you with this, means you’re deeply in the friend zone. In other words, she has no worries at all about losing your attraction for her. Like, that’s not even in her mind at all. You’re not even a potential lover right now. You are clearly in the friend category, because women won’t vent about other guys to guys that they actually want to get romantically involved with or want to impress. A girl will not do that. So, if she is doing that, it’s a sign that she has already slotted you firmly in the friend zone, okay?
Now, how do you get out of this situation? The first thing you got to do is to stop being the therapist. How do you do that? The easiest way is to just excuse yourself and thread cut out of those situations. But if you’re in a pattern where you’re used to having this happen, you just got to stop her when she starts venting and say… Whatever her names is, I’ll just say Lucy or whatever, “Lucy,” you say, “Lucy, you’re beautiful, you’re smart and I fully believe that you can get out of this situation” or “I’m fully confident that you can handle this situation.” That’s it. You embed some nice compliments in there; beautiful, she’s smart, and you fully believe that she can handle it.” And that’s it.
You know, you just put your hand, “I fully believe you can handle it.” And then you thread cut into something fun or funny, or maybe you share from yourself, but try not to keep it sad and depressing; move it to something else. If you don’t know how to fucking thread cut, get onto our free courses on how to have conversations, okay? So many guys, basically, suck with people and they don’t realize that this is a skill that you can learn, that anybody can learn and anybody can become proficient at it.
So, time to man up, be an adult, fucking learn how to talk to people, fucking learn how to control conversations. Go to AuraTransformation.org, scroll down, there are three free courses there. Two of them are how to make new friends, and another one’s how to start conversations or how to have conversations, small talk and all that; how to control those conversations so that they go in the directions you want them to go. Very simple skills, very basic skills. Every client and member of our coaching programs, especially our live programs, has had this drilled into them and they know how to do this. So, if you don’t know how to do it, you’re really missing out.
So, very simple. I’ve made lots of free courses on this. Just go and get educated. It’s not difficult. Just go and fucking get your education down. And understand if a girl’s using you as a free therapist, you are firmly in the friend zone. So just tell her, “You’re smart, you’re beautiful and I firmly believe that you can get out of this situation” or “I firmly believe that you can handle it”, and then you thread cut. So, you can just move to, “If I were here, I would just move to check out this view and look at this Lebua. Have you been to Sirocco Sky Bar? The view there is amazing. Have you seen Hangover?” And then you talk about it and move on. Simple as that.
Now, you can decide where you want to thread cut to, what conversational thread you want to move towards, but it’s as simple as that. Don’t get mired into that situation where you are the shoulder to cry on; she will take you for granted and it is a sign that she is not interested in impressing you, which you can infer that she’s not interested in pursuing romantic relationships with you.
One thing before I go. Some guys are confused why Hollywood would present so many plotlines where it’s the sobby, nice guy who finally gets the girl at the end. This is over, and over and over. I recently was talking to a friend who just watched The Devil Wears Prada again. That reminded me of the ending of that movie, where the guy who played Vincent Chase… Grenier, I think his name is Adrian Grenier or something. Anyway, he was in that movie as the love interest. He was this mopey, annoying guy and eventually she goes back to him at the end of the movie. And then it was like, “Oh, okay.” And girls are like, “Oh, that’s sweet” but they’re confused. Men are confused by that reaction.
Let me explain it: women want you to be vulnerable, they want you to open up, they want you to be authentic, and honest and genuine. Let’s put that out there, alright? Women want you to be authentic, genuine, honest and vulnerable. They do not want you to be fake, and manipulative and deceitful. I can’t believe that needs to be said. But men are so confused because they don’t know the fucking difference. So, this is what she wants. She wants you to be vulnerable, honest, genuine and authentic but still be strong. So, she wants the strong, mature, stable alpha dude. In other words, the guy who is dominant, in control and a leader, who is also then vulnerable around her and opens up to her.
Now, she’s not going to be turned on by a weakling overall and is now crying on her shoulder. That’s not sexually attractive. What she’s reacting to in the Hollywood movie is the vulnerability of the guy that shows at the end. And often, in this movies, the wimpy guy becomes the strong guy. 500 Days of Summer, wimpy guy becomes emotionally stronger because he gets those calluses and he grows the fuck up. And then, when he opens up and has that deep sadness, it’s attractive because it’s genuine but it’s coming from a place of strength. A lot of guys are coming from a place of weakness emotionally.
And when they show the weakness, because they’re emotionally weak, they’re pussies, they’re like little babies, and they open up and cry, it’s not attractive. But when a man who’s strong, and emotionally and physically strong, and is centered and is a leader, opens up and cries and is vulnerable, it’s attractive because it’s real. That’s what it means. It’s genuine, it’s authentic, but it’s coming from a place of strength and that’s what they’re reacting to. That’s what they’re attracted to in the Hollywood plots.
I’m just going to stop there. I think it’s pretty obvious. I just wanted to mention that point. And for guys who want to see the course on how to get out of the friend zone, go to the private Facebook group, find Carlo’s post and then I’ll put it in the comments right there under his post. Alright, so join the private Facebook group to get all the goodies. There’s also a lot of goodies on our main site, AuraTransformation.org.
Alright, until then, I will see you in the private Facebook group. Man Up![MUSIC]