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For over a decade, David Tian, Ph.D. — a uniquely qualified therapist, life coach, and former university professor — has coached tens of thousands of people from over 87 countries to achieve happiness and success in their relationships, dating, psychology, and lifestyle.

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Ep.207 – Does Kissing Count As Cheating?

Does Kissing Count As Cheating?

  • David Tian Ph.D. gets into the details of an open, monogamous relationship.
  • If you want to have a true open relationship, David Tian Ph.D. reveals what you should understand.
  • In this Man Up episode, David Tian Ph.D relates personality type and the type of relationship you’re looking for.

Boom! Stop. I’m David Tian, PhD, and in this video, I answer the question: Does kissing count as cheating? Welcome to Man Up Episode 207.

Masculinity for the Intelligent Man. I’m David Tian, PhD., and this is Man Up!

Hey, this is David Tian, PhD., and for over the past 10 years, I have been helping hundreds of thousands of people in over 87 countries attain success, happiness and fulfillment in life and love. Welcome to Man Up Episode 207. I’m in Toronto on the streets enjoying a beer. A little commercial for Canadian beer. I don’t know. And that’s the ROM, the Royal Ontario Museum right behind me, and some parts of the University of Toronto campus. These are my old hunting grounds back in the day, like 15 years ago now I’m thinking, but so bringing back where I am over here in the sidewalk patio, enjoying some food. That’s half-eaten food there.

Anyway, I got a question here. This one comes from Bond. The question is: “Is kissing cheating?”

“My girlfriend made out with a co-worker, a dude she told me not to worry about. We’ve been together nearly a year and have had a very open and honest monogamous relationship.”

So, let’s just be clear about this. Open, monogamous relationship. So normally when you use the word ‘open relationship’, that means something. But an open, monogamous relationship is actually an oxymoron. What he means is I guess they share a lot with each other, open and honest. “This is my most serious relationship to date, while she has lived with partners before.” I’m assuming the way you said that, ‘she has lived with partners before’, sounds like you haven’t. Anyway, “Now we’ve talked about jealousy and possibility of a less traditional relationship down the road, so it’s not that big a surprise. She’s been really into Sex at Dawn and has brought up the philosophy a lot recently.”

Actually, honestly, that’s scary for you and you should understand why. I made another long video on the reality of women and sex according to science. Google that. Look it up. Go get that, Bond. Anyway, “She’s been really into Sex at Dawn and has brought up the philosophy a lot recently. I don’t think I’m against it, however, this is definitely a violation of trust and I’ve expressed cheating is a deal breaker for me.” So, he’s asking: Is kissing cheating? He’s saying she kissed a co-worker, that’s a violation of trust.

“We were talking about moving in together, my family and friends love her as do I. We’re talking about moving in together. My family and friends love her, as do I. How do I negotiate my righteous anger or complex desires in an otherwise beneficial relationship?”

Bond, you are not ready to be with this woman at all. She’s definitely going to not be very loyal to you, and basically she’s looking for a rationale for it, and Sex at Dawn provides that very conveniently. If you want to have a true open relationship, you wouldn’t be asking these questions. In other words: If you’re the type of guy who is ready and will be able to handle well a true, open relationship: That is, a relationship where it’s polyamorous, you wouldn’t be having these concerns. If you’re on that edge of ‘maybe I’ll be polyamorous, but I can’t handle her making out with another guy while we’re in a relationship’ then you’re not going to enjoy that open relationship.

In other words, you’re getting bullied into it. You’re getting blackmailed into it. So much of Western liberal culture – Now, I’m based in Asia so we don’t have this pressure to conform to Western liberalism, and it’s gone really far-left these days. But this is a bastion of University of Toronto, and Canada is the bastion of Western liberalism. One of the problems is PC thinking, politically correct. And one of the things that’s politically correct is that you have to accept all lifestyles and not judge, even if you don’t like them yourself or are not comfortable with them. And so, you lie to your fucking self and you think, “Oh, I’ll be okay with it. It’s okay for her to make out. That’s like the evolved person. I got to be the evolved person” and the whole time you’re not cool with it, but you don’t want to admit that you are because it’s not cool or PC to say so.

So, you’re pussified and you don’t get to be a real man. Ironically, you might think that the men in Asia are less men than most of them might be, but the elite don’t have any of these problems at all. I know I’m trying to get into the sociology on that, but for the guys who live in Asia, you know what I’m talking about. The elite get their deals done in the KTV. You got no problems with understanding that. But here, you have to accept everyone’s lifestyle. That means you don’t even get to live the lifestyle you want, and so you’re being bullied into accepting an open relationship and Sex at Dawn stuff that you’re not really into, but you’re trying to keep her because you say, “How do I negotiate my otherwise beneficial relationship, her complex desires?”

You can’t. You’re not ready for it. You’re not mature enough. Maybe that’s the wrong way to put it. You’re not at that level – you’re not in that position that she is. That might mean that your personality type is looking for a monogamous relationship. Your personality type is looking for loyalty. She wants to live it up. YOLO it up. Fuck everything she wants. And hey, Sex at Dawn is a very convenient philosophy that helps her rationalize that. And so, go watch the longer lecture, seminar I did on the reality of woman and sex according to science.

“How do I negotiate my righteous anger?” This is definitely an American. Americans are pretty much the only people these days, dudes in America, who say things like that, “Righteous anger”. It’s almost like they’re in the position of God. Look, you lost. She fucked you over. Maybe, she fucked the other guy and you don’t even know. She fucked you over and now you’re like, “Oh, I’m righteous!” Righteous anger is useless. Here it is, man: You either win or you learn. Here, you lost. She screwed you over. She’s not being honest to you and she’s not being loyal to you. She’s not being upfront with you. She doesn’t have integrity with you.

Now, it’s your choice to, “Should I lower my standards? Should I compromise in order to keep an otherwise beneficial relationship?” The obvious answer is no, but you’re needy so you’re weak. I think part of it is the PC-ness of you, that you think you ought to be into open relationships, but you’re really not. There’s nothing wrong with that, not being into open relationships that is something that is a more extreme lifestyle choice.

She wants it. Power to her. Don’t pretend that you want it. The other thing is the righteous anger part is: Let it go and learn. Let it go. Let go of the anger. That doesn’t help you at all, unless it spurs you to move on. You might be angry at her and then dump her, which you should’ve. Considering those are your standards, and now you’re going to have to change those standards to fit the fact that she already cheated on you by kissing another dude, because you didn’t enter the agreement yet, it seems like, of the polyamorous relationship yet. You can compromise on your standards. As soon as you do that, you’re going to kill your integrity. The further you’re in that relationship, the less of a man you will be. The thing to do now is you got to be true to yourself. Say no to her. Give her the ultimatum. I think the stronger thing is just to leave her, to enjoy her Sex at Dawn lifestyle, and you go find another woman, and there’s 7 billion people on this planet. You should be able to find another person, and find somebody who is consistent with your lifestyle choice.

Let go of the anger. Learn from it. Learn to understand yourself, mostly foremost, and also learn about lifestyle choices, and standards, and values, and so on, and get clear on those. I have a course on that. I have several courses on that, but the best one you should start with is Invincible. Anyway, just a little plug for a course, but join the private Man Up Facebook group. If you’re watching this, you want to learn more, you want not make this mistake that Bond is making here, join the private Man Up Facebook group. Click the link. Join the group. I’ll see you inside the group. Until then, David Tian, Man Up!